Though I am inspired by your post-R2I blogs but similarly frustrated with the chaos of construction, politics and surplus money floating around (20Cr villas in BLR). But I am at present swallowing these nuisances.
The civic sense is altogether lost somewhere
- school teaches "dont use plastic", but requires transparent sheet wrap of textbooks/notebooks,
- school teaches "dont cut trees", but requires parents buy books rather than "hand-me-down",
- school teaches "follow/obey traffic rules", but everybody violates them - so I have no reasonable answer to kids asking about why teach rules when its practically not enforced,
- school teaches "dont bribe", but "requests extra money" to pay for updating govt records, etc.
the kids are getting theoretical education that doesnt match with practical experience nor do they witness it being done correctly.
More than anything, the taxation seems to be the one that is pressuring me to abandon my R2I and flee back to US. IN doesnt hesitate to tax anything that sounds money, but in return you get abysmal services and quality of life. The PPM in water is bad, the air quality is bad, the roads are bad, the civic sense is bad, the cheating is rampant, etc. Somehow ITD has managed to put more burden on sincere taxpayers by asking/requiring everything to be disclosed else imposing "black money fines".. but lot of janata seem to bypass it.
Can you please also write about the taxation logistics? Based on your blogs, I see you have a 401k, IRA, ROTH, HSA, brokerage, bank, (and potentially a 529 maybe). The challenges of these are unique per basket of investment and itself require a complex set of schedules/forms etc. While I am able to tolerate all the above pain points, I am unable to digest this one point.
Ever since ChatGpt, Trump and tariffs came into the picture, the uncertainty and in turn, the stress at work has multiplied for me and several of my friends/colleagues.
It’s almost a daily occurrence now that someone would either say that we would be forced to retire early due to AI or talk about moving back to India for a few years to retire early.
I can surely relate to the stress and uncertainty and how that can be overwhelming for those on a work visa in the US. I'm glad I don't have to worry about that. Despite the very strong urge to move abroad again, it's one of the reasons why I don't want to try to get back to the US. Definitely not until my EB2 priority date of March 2015 becomes current, which is probably years away.
But on the other hand, I still see your problems to be first-world problems, when I compare them to the disgusting third-world problems I face in Bangalore. I'll be glad to accept some work-stress and visa-uncertainties if I can get clean air, good roads, safe driving conditions and a few other very-basic expectations met in exchange😅
I don't know, man! If I could go back in time, I would still have left the US, but would have tried moving to Western Europe, Singapore, Australia, or any other decently developed country willing to take me in on a software job. I now firmly belong in the "Avoid India if you can" camp.
Hi Marty! Whether my net worth would be sufficient in Europe would be one of my smaller concerns right now 😅 There are many other immediate hurdles to clear. Finding a job abroad, relocating, settling down in a new environment, living through it all for a couple years to see if we even like our new country, getting PR, citizenship, etc.
I wouldn't worry about FIRE in Europe until I have citizenship and am well settled in!
Great write up. I feel you man. I am about to complete 18 years in the US inclusive of my years in Master's program. As much as we long for India while living in the US, the society in the US influence most of us to change in our attitudes, our tolerance levels, our behaviors towards others, the we appreciate nature and how it energizes you etc. We also develop habits like running, cycling, hiking, camping, carpentry etc. as you have noted, these can be done in India too but it is hard given the constraints of Indian urban landscape. I can walk and go for a morning run on the sidewalk so can my spouse but impossible in my tier 2 city in TN - my home state.
I am slowly gravitating towards live in America if I can solve GC conundrum by spending a year outside the US and getting it on EB1C.
How does your spouse feel about moving again or losing all the convenience Bangalore provides?
Whenever we are tied our home chores we do wish someone making us hot food but we know it isnt available here in the US, we get a quick bite from outside.
>> How does your spouse feel about moving again or losing all the convenience Bangalore provides?
My wife's also mentally prepared to move abroad now, and trade Bangalore's conveniences for a higher standard of living abroad. In addition to better infrastructure, we want our kids to grow up breathing clean air, live closer to unspoiled nature and good parks, and have access to an education system that actually values education over competition.
The lack of things to do with kids on weekends and holidays is also getting on to my nerves. Sick of going to malls and restaurants and the same old crowded parks. Anything more ambitious than this requires planning, advance bookings and stressful driving in traffic. There's no enjoying a pleasant Sunday drive where within an hour you'll find yourself at some countryside lake to enjoy a picnic.
That lifestyle that you take for granted in western countries is snatched away from you once you move to India. Since you've been 18 years in the US, and have picked up on many of the typical first-world hobbies, forget ever adjusting to the Indian way of life. If you ever feel like punishing and torturing yourself to repent any past sins, all you have to do is to return back and live in India, lol :D
I need to seize the opportunity and start writing high-engagement posts on the blog 😄
I don't keep up a whole lot these days about what's going on in the US other than very major headlines. Anything else I missed other than LA fires, New Orleans truck attack and Trump's no-citizenship-by-birth order?
Hi Ven, it's true that I haven't spoken much about that. Good time to answer it now that you've pointed it out :)
My mother is no longer with us. It's been ten years since she passed on, due to a brain tumor. She'd be 70 now if she was still around. And if she was, I think I'd have had a very strong reason to stay back, because I was emotionally closer to my mother than to my dad, and because she used to have health issues.
My dad is 77 now, and is still very healthy and fit, as fit as a 60 year old, touch wood! He travels a lot, going on organized tours - sometimes with his friends and other times by joining a tour group and making new friends on the tour. He's living his life to the fullest, and isn't counting on me for anything just yet.
I'm positive that he'll easily make it into his 90s without any major health issues, which gives me at least another 10 years of time to not worry about him. For any immediate emergency during this time frame, my sister who lives in Bangalore will be able to step in and help out if I can't get involved fast enough.
So this should be enough time to move to some country with a faster path to citizenship (like Germany/Australia), put down some roots there, and redesign my life in a way where I'll have the option to be in India when required, and not be in India when not required.
Your writing skills are excellent - paints quite a picture. :)
Once you move abroad, do you think about the lack of luxuries there? Like you'd have to do household chores, take care of the kids, and do the corporate job ofcourse (not sure if both you and your spouse would work or one of you would be stay at home mom/dad) any plans around that? I know we can hire some help but it won't be like India obviously. Your day would still be very much occupied and you may need to grind at work (given the less number of jobs, more layoffs these days) until you get a PR.
So did you think about moving to some other city like Indore, Chandigarh, Coimbatore in India which are less populated (I haven't personally visited these cities so not sure how much livable those are, only read about them on blind)?
I don't have the energy or motivation to take another huge gamble and move to a different part of India. Why would anyone do that? I don't think you'll find a reasonably older person with young kids voluntarily choosing to relocate to a completely unfamiliar city in India where they don't speak the local language, have no family or friends, absolutely no ties to the place - unless they have a very specific project they want to pursue in that new place, or unless their job forces them to move.
I'm aware that by moving abroad, I'll be giving up on certain conveniences that are readily available in India. But I'm being careful in choosing my target country. So I have Germany, or a European country in mind where there's no grinding and the work culture greatly values work-life balance and a slower pace of life. The career-minded ambitious folks on Blind berate Europe because of lower-pay and career stagnation, attributing that to people just taking it easy and chilling out there, but that is EXACTLY what I want at this stage of my life! And a quick path to PR and citizenship, which will again open up more avenues of freedom in life.
Though I am inspired by your post-R2I blogs but similarly frustrated with the chaos of construction, politics and surplus money floating around (20Cr villas in BLR). But I am at present swallowing these nuisances.
The civic sense is altogether lost somewhere
- school teaches "dont use plastic", but requires transparent sheet wrap of textbooks/notebooks,
- school teaches "dont cut trees", but requires parents buy books rather than "hand-me-down",
- school teaches "follow/obey traffic rules", but everybody violates them - so I have no reasonable answer to kids asking about why teach rules when its practically not enforced,
- school teaches "dont bribe", but "requests extra money" to pay for updating govt records, etc.
the kids are getting theoretical education that doesnt match with practical experience nor do they witness it being done correctly.
More than anything, the taxation seems to be the one that is pressuring me to abandon my R2I and flee back to US. IN doesnt hesitate to tax anything that sounds money, but in return you get abysmal services and quality of life. The PPM in water is bad, the air quality is bad, the roads are bad, the civic sense is bad, the cheating is rampant, etc. Somehow ITD has managed to put more burden on sincere taxpayers by asking/requiring everything to be disclosed else imposing "black money fines".. but lot of janata seem to bypass it.
Can you please also write about the taxation logistics? Based on your blogs, I see you have a 401k, IRA, ROTH, HSA, brokerage, bank, (and potentially a 529 maybe). The challenges of these are unique per basket of investment and itself require a complex set of schedules/forms etc. While I am able to tolerate all the above pain points, I am unable to digest this one point.
How are you doing, Dog?
Ever since ChatGpt, Trump and tariffs came into the picture, the uncertainty and in turn, the stress at work has multiplied for me and several of my friends/colleagues.
It’s almost a daily occurrence now that someone would either say that we would be forced to retire early due to AI or talk about moving back to India for a few years to retire early.
Hi Jay, nice to see you dropping by :)
I can surely relate to the stress and uncertainty and how that can be overwhelming for those on a work visa in the US. I'm glad I don't have to worry about that. Despite the very strong urge to move abroad again, it's one of the reasons why I don't want to try to get back to the US. Definitely not until my EB2 priority date of March 2015 becomes current, which is probably years away.
But on the other hand, I still see your problems to be first-world problems, when I compare them to the disgusting third-world problems I face in Bangalore. I'll be glad to accept some work-stress and visa-uncertainties if I can get clean air, good roads, safe driving conditions and a few other very-basic expectations met in exchange😅
I don't know, man! If I could go back in time, I would still have left the US, but would have tried moving to Western Europe, Singapore, Australia, or any other decently developed country willing to take me in on a software job. I now firmly belong in the "Avoid India if you can" camp.
I’m squarely in that camp but Vizag is a bit better than Bangalore in that aspect. But only a bit.
I will be going drinking with some of them today. Will show them your reply. :)
Have you thought about NZ or Japan? Those were two countries that I almost made a leap to.
Do you think your current Networth is sufficient for a European country? Or do you anticipate having to work till you meet a new target?
Hi Marty! Whether my net worth would be sufficient in Europe would be one of my smaller concerns right now 😅 There are many other immediate hurdles to clear. Finding a job abroad, relocating, settling down in a new environment, living through it all for a couple years to see if we even like our new country, getting PR, citizenship, etc.
I wouldn't worry about FIRE in Europe until I have citizenship and am well settled in!
Great write up. I feel you man. I am about to complete 18 years in the US inclusive of my years in Master's program. As much as we long for India while living in the US, the society in the US influence most of us to change in our attitudes, our tolerance levels, our behaviors towards others, the we appreciate nature and how it energizes you etc. We also develop habits like running, cycling, hiking, camping, carpentry etc. as you have noted, these can be done in India too but it is hard given the constraints of Indian urban landscape. I can walk and go for a morning run on the sidewalk so can my spouse but impossible in my tier 2 city in TN - my home state.
I am slowly gravitating towards live in America if I can solve GC conundrum by spending a year outside the US and getting it on EB1C.
How does your spouse feel about moving again or losing all the convenience Bangalore provides?
Whenever we are tied our home chores we do wish someone making us hot food but we know it isnt available here in the US, we get a quick bite from outside.
Hi Ram, glad to hear from you!
>> How does your spouse feel about moving again or losing all the convenience Bangalore provides?
My wife's also mentally prepared to move abroad now, and trade Bangalore's conveniences for a higher standard of living abroad. In addition to better infrastructure, we want our kids to grow up breathing clean air, live closer to unspoiled nature and good parks, and have access to an education system that actually values education over competition.
The lack of things to do with kids on weekends and holidays is also getting on to my nerves. Sick of going to malls and restaurants and the same old crowded parks. Anything more ambitious than this requires planning, advance bookings and stressful driving in traffic. There's no enjoying a pleasant Sunday drive where within an hour you'll find yourself at some countryside lake to enjoy a picnic.
That lifestyle that you take for granted in western countries is snatched away from you once you move to India. Since you've been 18 years in the US, and have picked up on many of the typical first-world hobbies, forget ever adjusting to the Indian way of life. If you ever feel like punishing and torturing yourself to repent any past sins, all you have to do is to return back and live in India, lol :D
Appreciate this post. Please do write about the tax topics, issues you faced etc.
Hey AC, glad to hear someone cares😅 Sure, will definitely make a post soon. Self-imposed deadline: Feb 15, 2025.
Thank you. I certainly think more people would be interested in these tax topics especially after what's been happening in the USA lately :D .
I need to seize the opportunity and start writing high-engagement posts on the blog 😄
I don't keep up a whole lot these days about what's going on in the US other than very major headlines. Anything else I missed other than LA fires, New Orleans truck attack and Trump's no-citizenship-by-birth order?
You never called out about the support your aging parents need? How are you planning that?
Hi Ven, it's true that I haven't spoken much about that. Good time to answer it now that you've pointed it out :)
My mother is no longer with us. It's been ten years since she passed on, due to a brain tumor. She'd be 70 now if she was still around. And if she was, I think I'd have had a very strong reason to stay back, because I was emotionally closer to my mother than to my dad, and because she used to have health issues.
My dad is 77 now, and is still very healthy and fit, as fit as a 60 year old, touch wood! He travels a lot, going on organized tours - sometimes with his friends and other times by joining a tour group and making new friends on the tour. He's living his life to the fullest, and isn't counting on me for anything just yet.
I'm positive that he'll easily make it into his 90s without any major health issues, which gives me at least another 10 years of time to not worry about him. For any immediate emergency during this time frame, my sister who lives in Bangalore will be able to step in and help out if I can't get involved fast enough.
So this should be enough time to move to some country with a faster path to citizenship (like Germany/Australia), put down some roots there, and redesign my life in a way where I'll have the option to be in India when required, and not be in India when not required.
I'm hoping I can turn this vision into reality 🤞
Your writing skills are excellent - paints quite a picture. :)
Once you move abroad, do you think about the lack of luxuries there? Like you'd have to do household chores, take care of the kids, and do the corporate job ofcourse (not sure if both you and your spouse would work or one of you would be stay at home mom/dad) any plans around that? I know we can hire some help but it won't be like India obviously. Your day would still be very much occupied and you may need to grind at work (given the less number of jobs, more layoffs these days) until you get a PR.
So did you think about moving to some other city like Indore, Chandigarh, Coimbatore in India which are less populated (I haven't personally visited these cities so not sure how much livable those are, only read about them on blind)?
Hey PG! Glad you enjoyed my post :)
I don't have the energy or motivation to take another huge gamble and move to a different part of India. Why would anyone do that? I don't think you'll find a reasonably older person with young kids voluntarily choosing to relocate to a completely unfamiliar city in India where they don't speak the local language, have no family or friends, absolutely no ties to the place - unless they have a very specific project they want to pursue in that new place, or unless their job forces them to move.
I'm aware that by moving abroad, I'll be giving up on certain conveniences that are readily available in India. But I'm being careful in choosing my target country. So I have Germany, or a European country in mind where there's no grinding and the work culture greatly values work-life balance and a slower pace of life. The career-minded ambitious folks on Blind berate Europe because of lower-pay and career stagnation, attributing that to people just taking it easy and chilling out there, but that is EXACTLY what I want at this stage of my life! And a quick path to PR and citizenship, which will again open up more avenues of freedom in life.
Do you ever contemplate what would your experience have been if you had moved to a different city like HYD?